alexandria/2024/notes/mes-45/peace-dialogue-notes.md

# Peace dialogue notes

Rotem Levin's introduction

- Grew up as Israeli, became soldier
- Doubted morals, told to not think about consequences
- Army is above everything
- Never imagined meeting Palestinians -> always told to never cross wall (into
  West Bank), violent
- Never heard about Nakba (in Israel) until Germany -> In Israel, Law prohibits teaching Nakba
- Israeli/Palestine peace activists: First step forward is recognizing the
  other side
- Decided to move and live with Palestinian friends in West Bank -> reaction
  was shock
- Oppressive system, Israeli government encroaching on Palestinian way of life

Osama Illiwat's introduction

- Lived in Jericho, born in East Jerusalem
- Stories of Nakba were earliest
- In Jerusalem, no services, not allowed to fix houses, etc
- Army gave two options: administrative detention -> kidnapped by General for
  2-3 years or military court
- Learned about all injustices committed by jews (Israelis) and began to feel
  hate, throw stones, etc
- Heard of peace talks, celebrations in Jericho
- Felt not recognized by international law, community, etc -> no rights
- Palestinian schools closed by Israeli army
- Shocked by jews who believe in peace -> could not believe they exist -> only
  one narrative
- Met woman who believed had right to live on land, but did not believe they
  had the right to displace and discriminate against others
- Everyone is suffering, paying the price
- Went to Europe, learned what happened to Jews (holocaust) -> came to
  conclusion that Israelis and Palestinians have to meet and talk to resist the
  system
- Started "Visit Palestine" to show Israelis what Palestine and life under
  occupation looks like
- Only way forward is to give everyone their freedom

Questions:

Where was the meeting in Bethlehem?

_Q: What other parts of the system oppress the people?_

A: There are three groups:

First - from (Jordan) River to Sea. Arabs born in Israel ostensibly have
citizenship

Second group: Palestinians in West Bank, Gaza: not citizens, military
law/police instead of civil police

Third group: Palestinians expelled

The entire system is how to guarantee Jewish majority (ethnostate). You can't
guarantee "Jewish democratic state" without discrimination. Jewish democratic
state / Jewish majority / "Jewish supremacy"

_Q: Is land redistribution is a path through this crisis, and do you see that as
a part of this movement?_

A: In America, ethnic cleansing is complete, so we can talk about reparations,
redistribution, etc. In Gaza, we are in the middle of ethnic cleansing.
Redistribution is a "fantasy", because we need to stop the violence now. Of
course, it is part of thefuture, but no one is imagining it because worried
about more immediate issues

Need to work on a ceasefire now. Worrying about what is the best solution,
peace organization, etc, is us trying to keep conscience happy. No one knows
about what is going on in Gaza, Israeli jails, etc. We need to talk about the
governments defending Israel's crimes. Peace organizations are part of the
system. Can't use system to change system.

Israeli government doesn't want citizens to learn common language with Arabs.
Discourage learning Arabic. Want to keep people apart because otherwise they
will realize they are similar.

System needs to keep people divided to dehumanize them.

_Q: Who in the system do or would you think you need to speak to?_

A: Very flexible, willing to speak to anyone who agrees or disagrees with us.
Want to convince everyone.

_Q: What do you think are the best steps to take to promote ceasefire on
individual and institutional level?_

A: We are all complicit because the system in Israel is the same system here.
The same military complex, the same bombs. Understand how system works, and
unite and build power and a movement. Need to be open and let people who
disagree with us into our space, to stop separation of us against them.
Transformation takes time. We are fighting against the empire who makes
billions while we kill each other.

Q: It seems that real transformation will not occur until mass media begins to
change. The most respected media voices censor much of the discourse. What has
your experience been with the media branding many of your points as
anti-semitic?

A: The mainstream media are not interested. Only invited by podcasts and small
newspapers. Big channels will never talk to the activists. We need to build
alternative independent media.

Q: Do you feel that with support for Palestine on social media, Israelis are
beginning to see the actions of the Israeli state?

A: More and more Israelis are waking up but it's not enough, the mainstream are
moving right. Every night, the news is propaganda. The prevalence social media
and phones is very good because it's finally documenting the war crimes.
Before, people wouldn't believe the atrocities committed by the Israel
government. The US government is working more for Israel than the Americans.

Q: Is the way that we discuss the issues productive?

A: Many people are too busy infighting amongst themselves, when they have no
skin in the game.